Today on hour two of MPR's Midmorning, starting at 10 Central:
Is feminism dead?
The suffrage movement became irrelevant after women won the right to vote. Now with career possibilites no longer limited by gender, some say the feminist movement too has essentially served its purpose.Guest: Kay Hymowitz is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute and a contributing editor of City Journal. She wrote an article titled The End of Herstory for the Summer 2002 volume of City Journal.
Feminism, like the civil rights movement, achieved all its goals at some interminate point in the distant past and is only promoted/clung to by dinosaurs who have not yet realized their own liberation, or by demogogues who make baseless allegations of sexism/racism to promote their own interests.
Or so the neocon party line goes, I think. After their first sentence, I usually start singing "Hey Mister DJ, put a record on, 'til they stop talking 'bout this bullshit."
(Previous joke shameless ripped off from Margaret Cho.)
Want to know more? Didn't think so, but The End of Herstory is up on the web. Using techniques I learned from Rachel Lucas, here are some heavily edited, out of context and rearranged quotes:
When you ask young women today if they think of themselves as feminists, more often than not they will pause for a moment. Then they will answer something like: Well, I believe in equal pay for equal work, or Yes, I do believe women should have choices, or Of course, I believe women should have equal rights.If these are the principles that define feminism, then we are all feminists now. And the future belongs to feminism, too: a 2001 American Demographics survey of adolescent girls entitled The Granddaughters of Feminism found that 97 percent believe women should be paid equally, while 92 percent believe lifestyle choices should not be limited by sex.
[. . .] But how do we explain that pause that comes when you ask women if they consider themselves part of the movement? The truth is, very few Americans are capital F Feminists. Polls show that only about a quarter of women are willing to accept the label.
[. . .] Activists who try to make sense of these young feminists who are not Feminists conclude that the movement has an image problem. The reason so many people believe in feminist goals yet reject the label, they say, is that the media have given us a cartoon picture of liberationists as humorless, Birkenstock-wearing man-haters, our eras version of the old-fashioned spinster. Feminism is still an unfinished revolution, they say, and young women share its goals. They just dont like the packaging.
But this explanation falls far short. Feminism is not simply suffering from a P.R. problem. Its just over. As in finished.
No, think I managed to preserve her meaning. Darn. I am still but a learner, it appears.
Pardon my rant here...
But I actually believed this shit. I actually believed that there was no need for feminism. Until I was strapped down to a table and not allowed to move and forcefully given an IV during the birth of my first son. (of course, this was after 9 months of bullshit about how "this hospital allows women to choose how to give birth, we're so progressive, yadda yadda yadda.")
You should look at the medical industry and its refusal to allow women full access to healthcare choices (particularly when it comes to birthing) if you ever want to get REALLY pissed off about sexism. There are states where it's ILLEGAL to give birth at home. There are midwives who are hauled into jail for helping women birth without violence or restriction.
Seriously...it's disgusting. As is the claim that feminism is no longer necessary.
That's what I like about you and your readers Aaron. You're so retiring, so passive, never raising your voice, never expressing an opinion. We never know what you really think.
We're all just wallflowers here, yes.
I mean, the chicks are wallflowers. I am sensitive, new-age guy. But I'm working on it.
Later, I will write about drinking cheap domestic beer while watching a sporting event.
1- Dru- I deeply, deeply empathize w/you & your trials interacting w/the western medical establishment.
2- so let's get down to business & trash- um, I mean contextualize- Ms. Hymowitz, shall we?
B. 1948 [that's at the height of the post-war baby boom, for those of you following at home.] I'll leave you to do the math to decide how old she was during ERA. & leave to you to look up Second Wave Feminism.
World Cat lists these as her only publications [MLA & ISI list none at all.] Also notice she's sr fellow @ a thinktank, & therefore does not teach @ a university, & may not actually have Spoken to any youth outside her stats since she was one [& recall, we're talking 1960's, here.]
1 Ready or not : why treating children as small adults endangers their future--and ours /
1999
2 The spirit unconsumed :a history of the Topeka Jewish community /1979
[the following HAS to be my fav]
3 "I don't know where this is going" :
what teenagers learn about marriage from television and magazines /Institute for American Values, 1996
[sorry, just HAD to list that publisher on the last one- Context, you know.]
So, you know, talk amongst yourselves.
"If these are the principles that define feminism, then we are all feminists now. "
Absolutely! I believe that every reasonable person in this country is a feminist, regardless of if they realize it or not.
For me, feminism goes far beyond issues of voting and wages here in the U.S. it also means caring about the plight of women in other countries, and working to make cetain they are afforded equal rights. Or even basic human rights, which isn't the case in many countries.
Feminism is hard to define, but in my mind, it is the belief that women should be allowed to choose their own lives, much the way men do. Sure, for the most part, we can in the U.S. But can women in Pakistan, for example? there is a lot of work yet to be done, and for that reason, feminism cannot be dead.
Ah, Jo. Sweet, sweet Jo.
http://www.mensactivism.org/philosophy.shtml
Ever the optimist.
Thanks for the info, Neo.
Can I call you Neo?
Yes thanks for the info Neo. Very interesting.
I don't understand women that say they aren't feminists. It's cool and trendy now in the uber liberal lesbian community to say that they aren't feminist their humanist because they have such deep concerns for their "trans" brothers and sisters that they don't feel feminism encompasses. I lose all of my composure when trying to discuss it with them so I just give up and roll my eyes at them. Mature of me don't you think?
I'm just curious...who are the 3% who think that women should NOT be paid equally. What is that about?
I gotta go vomit.
Michelle- not immature at all, let's call it creative. Remember, these are the same enlightened people [we'll say, although I've only met female examples] who are critical b/c we might be straight/have straight friends, have/have friends who have children, be/have friends who are male [incl FTM], be/have friends who are bi- in short, I've been publically & childishly snubbed by enough enlightened feminisits [2nd & 3rd wave, mind you] for hitting all those categories, that I applaud your eye-rolling as perhaps a response they would recognize- you've figured out how to communicate w/them! Bravo!
Oh- and the humanists were a bunch of white, educated men that today live in Early Modern History textbooks. I shan't elaborate further.
Actually I consider myself a humanist not a feminist because I believe that everyone regardless of gender, race, sexual orientation-whatever classification you want to use- has the right to self-determination. That is each person should have the freedom to make choices about their lives that are not limited by society's expectations. As part of that each person should be respected for those choices he or she makes (within reason, of course- that is someone who choses to be a serial killer doesn't get my vote).
Both the feminist movement and the civil rights movement opened doors for people- not that those doors are as wide open as I believe they should be. But I believe a man should be able to be a stay at home father or a nurse or a teacher without the censure of the media and society. And a I believe a woman should be able to make the same choice.
The point is we should all have the freedom to choose our paths-And yes I realize that is a somewhat naive hope, but this is a short comment.
(Oh and Neo, I don't identify with the old white educated men even though I have read and studied them- I would like to think I have co-opted their title to try to find a term that is more inclusive than feminism- one that includes all humanity. :-)
I'm not anti-male or anti-humanists or really anti-much of anything- I'm pro women. Some people say that being "pro" something means you have to be "against" something else. I don't buy that.
But I agree with Samantha that everyone "we should all have the freedom to choose our paths." The post- feminists humanists that I describe have that right but I just have a hard time relating to it myself.
....
I'll be back to actually comment once I stop screaming and throwing things at the monitor.
I'm sorry?
Gee golly whillikers. Since when are humanism and feminism mutually exclusive? If I'm both, will it be like matter and antimatter and make me explode?
Not so far, it seems. Phew.
Nah, Michelle, it's not you. I wish I could be flabbergasted at the idea that people are saying feminism is dead (and not just because flabbergasted is a fun word to say), but I'm not.
Realising that something's changed focus is a lot more difficult than saying, "It's dead," which, I imagine, is why it's being said. There are still so many issues to be handled, but, y'know, this is the choir, I preach to it, so I'll stop here.
"Later, I will write about drinking cheap domestic beer while watching a sporting event."
What, you're a sports dyke?
Feminism dead, huh? Served its purpose?
Fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck
It left before it allowed doctors to figure out what's wrong with my mom's brain. Now she's hospitalized again, and no feminism to be seen to gear research towards her health issues.
Goddamit. GODDAMMIT!!!!!
If I were a *bad* witch (read: strong enough to bear the consequences of vitriolic maledicitons) I'd show these assholes what it means to say such things. As it is, I am not strong enough to bear those consequences, so I'll have to sit back and let Karma do its duty, while they sit back and refuse to acknowledge that women's physiology is not an errant duplicate of the male pattern. And all I can do in a postiive sense, while hoping that they suffer, is hope that my mom can use her left hand today, which will be proof that any intercranial bleedig, if there is bleeding again, has stopped.
You know, it really pisses me off that people seem to think that things like sexism or racism are abstract problems. They are not. They are painfully concrete.
Fuck.
I'm so sorry to hear about your mom, garrity.
Thank you. That's very kind of you.
And I apologize to all for airing raw and personal stress in the midst of political discussion, if it seemed inappropriate. My inappropriate-meter was all out of whack at five this morning, and then I looked over Aaron's post, and hadn't the sense to do as VASpider did and turn off the machine until I calmed myself.
The point, however, stands . . . If anything has been made clear from the discussion around here,it's this: the reason that discussions of gender or race are still relevant and necessary, and probably always will be, is because the damage we cause on these issues is so fucking personal in nature. Closed minds hurt and kill individual, breathing humans.
The karmic smackdown should be impressive, when it comes.
Garrity, I think it's pretty clear there is no such thing as "inapropriate" on this site. Unless it's somebody out there thinks George Lazenby was the best James Bond.
What Hanne said. And what you said, too.
No, I beleive inappropriate is:
Julie Newmar = Catwoman
Who's Eartha Kitt?
What about Lee Merriweather, you peasant?
Thank god no one mentioned David Niven as Bond yet. I'd have to hurt them.
Hey wow.
Somebody said I had good sense. In an argument or stressful situation.
Damn. Neat. Either I'm making progress, or I need to regress. I'm not sure which, yet.