George doesn't have comments permalinks; the material below which isn't linked is from the, er, discussion at his place. Probably saving quite a bit of space doing that at this point. And I imagine Jason is either going to trim more of the things (do I want to know what was in the ones you removed?), or delete the lot. A few weeks back, with much less provocation, I was strongly tempted to delete this entire site and take up knitting.
What provocation? The accusations, mostly.
Of Anger.
If black people are angry that the commercial somehow demeans them, those of you who are offended, bothered by it need to stop making everything about race.
And of Hatred.
Quit hatin'! Get some therapy or have a drink or something... Let dat shit go! Oops, I used ebonics.OH MY GOD! It's people like (most of) you writing here that make the world so hateful. I LOVE the commercial and would have never thought anything racist was going on there.
Then there's the ritual invocation of Confusion.
Maybe I'm failing to see the issue here [. . .] I am a straight white maleI don't want to sound like Pollyanna here...but WHY do so many people look for hatred where none exists? I just don't understand. I'm a white girl, from the suburbs
And much, much Offering of Unsolicited Advice.
Get a life. This is an underwear ad for heaven sake.
Get a clue it's an ad doing exactly what it was meant to do, and very well I might add.
Man, lighten up!
The comments I've read are making it a race issue and it shouldn't be. The sooner this sort of complaining stops, the sooner we'll be finished with race issues. We live in America and we are "one people, indivisible" as the Pledge ofAllegiance says. Who cares what color our skin happens to be... we should just all relax and enjoy each other's company.
But seriously, dont try and use racism as a card in every thing you see. The white man is not tryng to keep you down. Its far past time for the black community to do some constructive work on its image and role in society. The thug look and speech does very little to enhance the black image as a productive society member. I live in Atlanta and ride public transportation everyday. I am most times the only white man on the bus and notice that at least 50 percent of the black men onboard are trying to imitate (at least in dress and speech) this weeks favorite thug style rapper. You can't even understand what they are saying anymore, and I laugh my a-- off when they're pants fall off.
Hugh asked why I demanded original thoughts around here, and suggested that some ideas reappear because there's a grain of truth to them. Perhaps, but the lack of originality in the above quotes, and there's much much more if you're bored, isn't really moving any conversations forward, and I'm failing to see any truth in any of them.
Luckily, the angry black guys (to use John Hawkins' phrase) who post here are too closed-minded (to use Hugh's) for such chatter. Darn it all to heck.
On the other hand, we usually have discussions. Most of those posts are talking at some figment of the poster's imagination, rather than to either George or Jason. Those last links are to the afterset parties, which probably won't get nearly as many visitors. The ones in the original threads don't seem bright enough to figure their way around.
Perhaps there's something to be learned from all this, other that that Slate readers are by and large ignorant cracka-ass crackas, but I ain't seeing it.
Not sure about the full-quote links in some of those, especially with how the style sheet handles 'em. Guess I could play with that. Or try some inline style for them. Or delete this entire blog and start on making scarves for my relatives as Kwanzaa gifts.
Update: slightly altered links to comments at Jason's site. After demonstrating the patience of several saints, he finally turned the things off.
At this point, George Kelly is the Kwisatz Haderach.
No, you DID see it when you stated (so succinctly) that the posts were "talking at ...rather than to." Network news and Oprah have made everyone instant authorities, and as we know, authority can never be wrong. Therefore sound bites and a clear black and white (sorry--no, maybe not)worldview are the conversation-killing result.
Why are people so afraid of considering an opposing position and possibly changing their minds or modifying their views? No time? Too much work? Sign of weakness?
Excuse me, I can see the bottom of my coffee cup, which is always bad.
Once you refill that cup, you maybe wanna check out Christopher Priest's essay on David Letterman's campaign to appear on Oprah. Annoyingly thought-provoking stuff, and it almost makes me sorry I stopped buying Black Panther. Almost. That $1.99 buys me a bottle of Boone's, y'know.
I don't know why you're so ANGRY about this, Aaron. I mean, let's give the white man a chance to have his say. We need to allow for equal time, here.
Oh yeah, and we also need to allow the white women to ensure us about how open-minded they are by telling us there's nothing WRONG with that commercial. In fact, that black guy is kinda cute.
*super mega AUDIBLE eyeroll*
I tried to go back there last night, but I just really couldn't stand to read that crap any fucking more. I was glad to see j. brotherlove turned off his comments.
Started writing something about overt, conscious, politicized objectification of male bodies as a not particularly effective response to T&A advertising and myths of black male sexuality, but my brain said, "You know what? Fuck you," and left.
So, um, I'll be posting without if for the rest of the day.
Let's see if anyone notices any difference.
Since I've been working from home, I find the need to continue comminucating with the outside world lest I go completely insane. In fact, some might argue that I'm already insane, but the truth is people are trying to read my mind and the aluminum foil hat DOES keep them out. Additionally, you might argue that due to the daily flow of inside jokes, uppity-negro.com cannot be considered the "outside" world.
-back on track-
There is only ONE universally accepted business strategy; SEX SELLS. It seems that women's naughty bits are far more effective, however. After all, women's bodies are art, men's are receptacles for beer and brats.
I am convinced that my plan to retire in Mexico needs to be stepped up about 30 years. Anyone know an English speaking REALTOR in the Cabo San Lucas area? Last night while flipping through channels, I first passed by a wonderful show called "WWE SMackdown" or somethin. I've always known the reason folks like Mr. Spayer watch wrestling was not for the athletic talent, but this was ridiculus. They had two girls in the middle of the ring vying for the opportunity to be a ring girl or something. The announcer was telling them to touch each other, take their clothes off, etc. I guess they realized through test audiences not to waste time showing sweaty men wrestling.
Next channel, VH1. "Booty Call". Amazing show really. an in-depth look at sex in the music industry, more specifically, how the artists stack up to each other. A full 10 minutes dedicated to j-lo's ass, with a follow up of up and comer south of the border performers like Shakira(guilty pleasure #1, watching her gyrate, she's a mini-hottie) and kylie minogue.
If sex sells, how much does it cost?
I realize I missed the whole point, but I haven't talked to anyone for about a week.
"No TV and no beer make Homer something-something"
"Go Crazy?"
"Don't mind if I do!!!"
Ok, are you salaried, or hourly? And how long did it take you to write that?
I may get cable just to watch Shakira gyrate. MTV2 is unreliable in this regard. But at least I'm no longer at the mercy of the folks willing to pay $3.99 to see stuff on The Box.
Go FSBO. REALTORs are scum and should all die by the slowest, most painful method available.
If I were paid hourly for the hours I actually work, I think I'd make $1.47 a month.
You know I saw that commercial and I never thought twice about it. I didn't even remember it when I started reading some of the comments about it. I think I understand why someone would be offended by it, but it seems strange to me that upon thinking about some of the other commercials out there, it doesn't come into perspective. What about the twist commercials featuring a fat, unshirted, white guy dancing around the room like an idiot because the beer bottle's (can't remember what kind of beer) cap says twist off? Or a number of other commercials for pizza or various stores?
I think it's unfortunate that we haven't come far enough that it has to be an issue, but I don't think it makes it an unreasonable issue. What I found the most offensive about this commercial is that so many people act like Jason has not right to tell people how he felt about it? Jason never claims that the makers of the commercial are trying to keep the black man down. He just tells people that it made him feel bad. I don't see why everyone attacks him for saying that. He even adds that he's not trying to attack K-Mart or Vaughn.
Oh, and as a note, I read an article that said that research showed a dramatic tendency that when looking at predominantly black neighborhoods, there were more than twice as many K-Marts nearby and, in cases where both were nearby, K-Marts tended to be much closer. The article said that this research had been presented to K-Mart and that K-Mart was planning to target these communities to increase its market-share(sp? I'm lazy). Maybe they chose Vaughn because he was black and people tend to identify with people who look most like the image they see in the mirror every morning (though that does lead to the question why most people in commercials are unhealthily skinny when 60% of Americans are considered obese, but that's another discussion). Given that they're marketing boxers to black men, what image would have been acceptable? An old, black man talking about insinuating that he'd messed his boxers a time or two, like Milton Berle did in a BVD commercial? And, for the record, I'm serious. I'm not trying to make fun of anybody's opinion. I just want to you to tell me what you think, Aaron. And, by the way, sorry I missed you when you IM'ed me the other day. EMB
While 60% (ok, probably more like 80%) of us are "overweight" by many standards, no one likes to think of themselves as overweight. Therefore, if chubby folks started trying to hock sweaters from Old Navy to us, we'd say:
"Damn, that guy/girl looks fat in that turtleneck. Remind me not to buy that."
But Heather Locklear (mmmmm..., well 15 years ago mmmm....) could sell me Sieve brand condoms, now with added comfort!
"I have hair"
"this is what we call your 'residual self-image'"
"whoa"
P.S.
"I know kung-fu."
P.P.S.
"I know Shaq-fu."
Someone please take away my keyboard.
You know Shaq-Fu?
Show me.