Uppity-Negro.com

This is just a guess, but I would bet 5 dollars that there are a lot more white people talking to other white people about the Harry Belafonte statement than there are black folks talking to black folks about it.

It's big news on Bill O'Reilly and Larry King but was it big news on BET or America's Black Forum?

And now I'm a little depressed thinking that those were the first places I thought of when I thought about "Black News Outlets."

Sigh.

and they laughed at bono as statesman.

seriously, when was the last time harry put out a record? maybe his agent put him up to this.

although, look what speaking out in public on issues of the day did to bob dylan. about whom some of you may ask, who? you know, the father of that guy in the wallflowers...yeah, he was a musician once too.

somebody else also had a term for this kind of business: robert fripp. he called it "elephant talk".

DAY-O!!!!!!!!!!!! Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay-O.

Daylight come and me wan' the current administration to GET OUT!

Kick ASS, Harry!

here's the kicker. Powell more or less admits that Harry was RIGHT!!! of course, he doesn't call himself a house slave. no, no. he's something much more respectable: a "milk carton in the refrigerator." slave, milk carton? milk carton, slave? hmmmm... tough choice, really.

from bob woodward's new book:

"When Powell would be asked to go on television talk shows, the White House would tell him no," Woodward tells Wallace "And Powell would say, privately to his deputy Richard Armitage, 'I'm in the refrigerator. — I'm in the ice box. — They've got me put away and they'll pull me out like a carton of milk when they need me, and then put me back.'"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/11/17/60minutes/main529657.shtml

I love the comment about "gift baskets" and I may start using it (do you charge royalties?). As a gay man who's suffered through "learned" comments from straight men, I can relate.

For what it may be worth (from a white man), I recognized Harry Belafonte's remark for what it was: a Patton slap -- "wake up!" What I enjoyed about the affair is the most hysterical reactions came from the supposedly "anti-P.C." right. But then, given that they could hardly talk about the issues without risking a discussion they did not want, they chose to attack the specific words.

Your rude condescension is proudly paraded in our faces, justified by your supposed victomhood. You smugly assure yourself that all blackind shares your cynical callous attutude towards the American experience. Your judgement of American policies and motives can be likened to slighting Martin Luther King's accomplishments because he was a philanderer or Thomas Jefferson because he owned slaves. They still stood up head and shoulders above the rest. Your fellow papolos each have a mind of their own. And can justly choose a conservative approach to civic affairs rather than a liberal view. Harry Belafontes statements were obviously bigoted and uniformed. When carefully examined, his statements contained only vindictive, shrill, ill-conceived, uncollaberated insults. He is an embarressment to any cause. You have some find writing at times. Good Luck.

Yet more fun with careful reading:

"Your rude condescension is proudly paraded in our faces, justified by your supposed victomhood. You smugly assure yourself that all blackind shares your cynical callous attutude towards the American experience. Your judgement of American policies and motives can be likened to slighting Martin Luther King's accomplishments because he was a philanderer or Thomas Jefferson because he owned slaves."

Funny, I didn't notice Aaron expressing any direct political opinions in this entry. He merely quoted others. It was food for thought, served with a side of Aaron's usual self-deprecation -- not a bit of smugness, as far as I can tell.

"Your fellow papolos each have a mind of their own. And can justly choose a conservative approach to civic affairs rather than a liberal view."

Did Aaron suggest otherise? Indeed, I believe he assumed the existence of a range of opinion in the African-American community. And I quote:

"I'd also say his opinions fall well within the mainstream of African American politics, and might even be a wee bit on the conservative side of 'em."

He even noted that THIS was too broad a brush to paint with:

"That's a dangerous thing to say, though."

Next you say that

"Harry Belafontes (sic) statements were obviously bigoted and uniformed. When carefully examined, his statements contained only vindictive, shrill, ill-conceived (sic), uncollaberated (sic) insults. He is an embarressment (sic) to any cause."

His may have been shrill, but at least they were pointed, perhaps, as Glen suggests, potentially useful. Yours are merely unedited.

"You have some find (sic) writing at times. Good luck."

So Aaron may be a smug assmunch, but some of his antics momentarily amuse you, so he has your blessing, for what it's worth. My, my. How generous.

Am I being petty? Maybe. Will the gods of the typo slap me down? Probably. But engage the issues, man, instead of attacking the character of the author -- calling Aaron names does not get at the political question.

Two qoutes come to mind:niggaz are in a state of emergency... (ice cube, "the predator") and "can't we all just (be like us or die) get along." I think that was reginald denning... i added the part in parenthesis to represent what i think everytime a white person says it.

At any rate - Aaron, fo you realize your site's hilarity factor has increased tenfold since i emmigrated back to Canada? It's true, it is more fun to laugh at than laugh with.

Seriously though, now that i am an ex-pat of a sorts, i feel relieved that i my life is long american, why, I'm independent of american life now, i'm a canadian!

Update your shit muh-fuka...damn, i gets tied of reeding this same damn entry!

Mike Grimes foreva!!

(Aaron did set on his way back to Chicago today, so, no doubt he'll be entertaining the masses again in due course. Fret not.

But do think good safe travel thoughts, eh?)

Oh, good, you let him out of the closet, then?

Here's hoping for clear roads and conveniently located stops for coffee and cigarettes.

Doug S, what the hell are you talking about?

Speak English.

I love the way Laura bites her tongue. LOL

I did let him out, VA. I had this moment of clarity where I remembered that it's really my job to help people OUT of the closet, not put them in there. Oopsie. Damned dyslexia.

But the release was more than a little reluctant on my part, I have to confess.

Heather, I wasn't exactly thrilled to go either.

VASpider, someone kindly gave me enough coffee and smokes for the trip back. Along with some tempeh salad and wasabi chips. She's quite thoughtful that way.

Ronn, I think I'll let Laura and Garrity deal with the tourist. They're better at that sort of thing anyway. Thanks, you two.

uppity-shinob, think Rodney King was the one asking if we can all just get along. No reason for you Canadians to care about our issues; it's not like the U.S. remembers the Montreal Massacre. . .

Glen, considering how much material I, um, borrow without proper attribution, charging royalties would take more chutzpah than I'm capable of.

Erika, what you said.

r@d@r, there's a story about Bono's Midwest tour in today's Chicago Tribune. Guess I could register with them so's I can read/link the online version. . .

Jason, I try not to think about it.

Aaron,

For Laura's sake, I'll reword my message. If you concur with Belafonte's comments, you must have serious objections in having Colin Powell work for a Republican Administration. Then you tolerate (and seem to encourage) condescending impugnation of a fellow black american because you don't approve of his politics. I am not strictly a Republican, I disagree strongly with Bush's stand on the environment, business tax breaks and lack of enforcing anti-trust and health regulations. I believe that the drug war is more self destructive to this country than we can imagine. But I feel that the United States of America stands proudly amongst the nations, despite all its, some profound, faults. And the Republicans best represent the values responsible for this feeling, imho. Democrats cater to special interest groups who are beholden to tax money doled out by Democratic government policymakers. Republicans believe in the Constitution, and feel it is more applicable today than ever,: leftists push to label the Consitution as archaic or antiquated. Democrats want to take over custodial duties concerning every aspect of our lives, including overriding parental authority. So to conclude, black americans would not be all that misdirected if they rebelliously considered identifying and voting with the Republican party.

Doug S

The current Republican administraton is up to its backside in former Enron execs. Harvey Pitt did not resign until he was good and sure that Congress would not pursue them. Our former oil-magnate president is looking to drill for oil in the Arctic although it would take TEN YEARS before it could 'help the economy.' We have appointed a man up to his neck in the coverup of dirty secrets in the Nixon administration to seek out the administration's lapses in the months before 9/11. Yet you claim that Republicans stand for the constitution, and that it is Democrats who are in bed with special interests?? You, sir, are not what I would call a centrist. You MUST be 'strictly a Republican' to suggest these things; it is the only possible explanation for your willingness to turn a blind eye to blatant corruption.

PS -- I'd rather have government allow people to CHOOSE whether to become parents, and then exhibit concnern for the children that result, than insist all conceptions be carried to full-term but then ignore child abuse and neglect.

Doug S - thanks for the reply but please, don't think you've done me any favors.

So... Harry thinks Colin is a chump and said so, aloud. Big deal. I wonder what would have happened if Harry would have said the same thing regarding Condi, who apparently really does come from house nigga stock. I think that would have been funny.

Here's some impugnaciousness for your Xmas stocking - Black Republicans/conservatives are no revolutionaries; nor are they "rebellious". Nor are they the so-called "dissenters" (which has actually been asserted here at an earlier date) or the social martyrs they so often like to portray themselvs to be. Let them sniff down their nose at the rest of us laggards, who apparently weren't blessed with the same level of critical thinking skills. Who cares what they think?

Thing I don't get about Black conservatives: the poor dears have got something to prove, and what-n-evah that is, their near-untarnished desperation makes me embarassed for them.

Then again, with enablers like O'Reilly and Horowitz, I'd have to question my own set of so-called "values", too.

Now, the black conservative question is an interesting one.

If you're talking about simply the voters who vote republican that are black, I'm sure there are lots of reasons why. I know that I've considered going republican simply because I don't like the idea of having all "our" eggs in one basket. Especially because in times like these, when the republican party controls everything, no one in power has any reason to listen or respond to the black communities common concerns. I know folks that also just vote their pocketbooks and believe that they will have more money back if republicans are in office. Even though, as I was reading at some other blog this week, government spending goes up tenfold when republicans control the white house. Defense spending is huge.

Now, Black Conservative politicians are an interesting bunch. Powell seems to stay away from issues that don't relate to defense because he's at the very least very centrist and if I had to guess, he's probably socially liberal/progressive. But he's an economic conservative and a defense guy and knows what side that bread is buttered on so he stays in his party.

Condi Rice confuses me. I can't seem to get a grasp on what she truly feels because she spouts a whole lot of rhetoric. The only genuine thing I get from her when I hear her on political shows is her discussion of football and her beloved team (packers, right?).

Watts couldn't handle being paraded around as the new black model conservative without being given any power. (Which I think is true in both parties although women like Maxine Waters and Cynthia McKinney get to speak out a lot and aren't stifled in that regard by their parties' political agenda)

and...

who are the other black conservatives of note? The actual politicians...

Are there only 2?

Doug, you said:

you tolerate (and seem to encourage) condescending impugnation of a fellow black american because you don't approve of his politics

Some of this issues from their "fellow black american[s]" too, and not just the self-described Republicans.

I dunno, it almost sounds like you're claiming racial solidarity should trump dislike of Powell's policies. But that's plain silly.

Laura, Black Republicans (and Libertarians, whether they capitalize it or not) are individualistic and iconoclasts. Just ask one. They'll tell you at great length, while also parroting the party line precisely. It's why I tend to avoid them, really.

Jason, how could you forget Alan Keyes?

He's Making Sense, you know.

Aaron,
Having Powell compared to a house nigger is hardly the same as Sharpton, et all, being exposed as the buffoons that they are. Their antics are serious obstacles to any meaningful dialog. You aren't saying these people are black leaders or that they speak for black people, please. That's like saying Bin Laden speaks for all Muslims. If you feel the Democrats serve your interests, then by all means, stick with them. To my mind, the criticism of Powell had nothing to do with his actions or words. It was a vulgar method of expressing displeasure and impatience with someone's career choice.

Doug, did you and Oliver Willis take the same correspondence course, or comments class, or whateverthefuck it was? Because you have similar tendencies to arrange buzzwords and clichés into strings of text which are almost, but not quite, meaningful sentences of English.

Come back when you have an original thought, or can express yourself in an interesting way.

On second thought, just don't come back.

Aaron,

Just because you can't address my points, or stay on the point anyhow, you revert to personal attacks. Not pretty. The unprovoked slur on Powell by Belafonte cannot compare to well deserved applicable criticism addressed towards Sharpton, Cynthia McKinney (so repugnant she was rejected by her own Democratic district) I would think you would have the self-respect to distance yourself from these people. Are you afraid of disagreement? The worlds challenges don't just go away.

See, Doug, the problem here is exactly as Aaron stated. You're waving around the warblogger lexicon like you have something to say with absolutely no results. I suggest fewer tortured efforts at eloquence if you really are trying to make a point.

Alternately, wait until the x-pundit feeds you a real argument. You'll be able to recognize this by all the "me too" posts following it.

Otherwise, I'd suggest staying somewhere safer where incoherent spleen ventings are taken more seriously.

Doug, to reiterate what goneaway just said, you don't have any points. Just an opinion, one which you apparently read and merely repeated from elsewhere, and one I have zero interest in reading or responding to.

If you'd like to interpret this as meaning you have a monopoly on Truth, fine. You do. I am fortunate you allow me to hold and express my own views, fundamentally flawed as they are.

By the bye, "nigger" was your own very special contribution to this. Belafonte called Powell a house slave.

This says much about you.

You can go now.

is that like when people comment to me, "Oh, I saw your website-nigga please dot com" and I just shake my head in wonder and regret rather than actually respond?

Surely there must be some common ground between us, such as "we respect the values this country was intended to stand for, despite its failings" or "the Constitution and Bill of Rights form a good faith effort at a just government". Name any other political system in the world which can come close to ours in fairness. Where does your antagonism lead us? Are you leaching built up hate from years of mistreatment? Or do you identify with an oppressed group of people who doubt their ability to thrive, even here in a country most people of the world would give their good arm to come and live in.

what the hell are you talking about?

When did this become a conversation about "common ground?"

In fact, I might be sick of "common ground."

We don't all have to play together in the playground. We only have to be sure that the playground is open to all of us.

Why must we have the same frame of reference? Is that so you know that I'm not crazy, or that Aaron's not crazy, or the people that post here aren't crazy? If we don't have some "common ground" with you, our opinions (varied though they may be) aren't valid?

explain this to me...or better yet, don't.

The internet may be the playground but here, if I may be so presumptive, is our sandbox and we're not playing with you.

Toying, perhaps. But not playing.

Doug, Heather asked me to be nice this week, and I think I have been so far.

Normally, I would have just told you to fuck away off a while ago.

Instead, I'm doing it now.

Note I said "told" rather than "asked."

This is not a request.

"i feel relieved that i my life is long american,"

Are my ESL skills showing? not even i knwo what i was trying to say.

So, you can't help showing off to all your toadies. My attempt to initiate conversation in the friendliest of manners has provoked the thug in you. Your childish insults expose the true nature of this website. I have stayed cordial and stuck to points of debate, rather than revert to pointless personal attacks. If you keep feeding off each other's rancor, rather than honestly attempting to understand all points of view, not much will be accomplished here. I wouldn't talk to people that way if I were you.

"rude condescension"

"You smugly assure yourself"

"in the friendliest of manners"

Let's play a game. It's one they play on Sesame Street, so it shouldn't be too hard for you, Doug.

It's called "One Of These Things Is Not Like The Other." Can you spot the phrase that does not belong?

That's right! The first two were from your first post, and the last one is from your last post! Very good, you get the comfy blanket at naptime this time!

(See? Now that's smug condescension. It's also smug condescension backed by the knowledge that you're documentably correct. I understand this may not be something with which you are familiar.)

You didn't initiate conversation in the friendliest of manners; you started out by slinging insults and kept slinging them all throughout.

In case you didn't get the message the first time?

FUCK. OFF.

I'd get all incensed that we're Aaron's toadies for 1) reading his site and 2) being intelligent enough to see your combatative bullshit for what it is, but that would require me to put actual weight behind your opinion. Truth of it is, you came out swinging and striking at Aaron directly as opposed to arguing your points, and it's all clearly delineated right there to be read by anyone who can use, say, a scrollbar.

I would.

And "honestly attempting to understand all points of view" has precisely jack shit to do with seeking to find common ground with people with whom one may not have points of agreement in common. You wanna find a way to prove to me or anyone else that Aaron hasn't (or any of the rest of us haven't) honestly attempted to wrap our poor wizened thuglike troglodyte brainmeats around other points of view, I'm willing to sit back and watch you try, just as long as you bear in mind that understanding of other points of view doesn't mean you have to agree with them one whit, or even seek to find a place of compromise with them.

It's called diversity of opinion. Maybe someday you'll understand.

And just a friendly reminder: a privately owned forum means that the owner has the right to control the content of that forum. There's nothing wrong with Aaron telling you to move along. I'd likely tell you myself but it isn't my site.

And not to continue to deal with this but what's bugging me, David S., if you haven't "fucked off" yet, is that you keep talking about points you made.

You didn't make any or at least none that hadn't been already covered and/or refuted. Aaron's initial post covered a few different topics relating to our current administration, how a certain person wrote about them, how that related to how African Americans might generally feel in regards to the topic, and whether or not white talking heads should be (note that I didn't say "had the right", we all have the right to say what we want, whether or not we should be saying it is open to debate) determining what is controversial or outrageous in the nebulous, crazy, sexy, cool "black community."

You continued to focus on the cnn/fox news obsession with the initial statement without even attempting to deal with the facts of the situation. Others have pointed out that Colin Powell didn't find it offensive, understood the context in which it was said and even how it may be a valid criticism. There's even a link up there in the comments should you choose to read it.

You never varied from that point, only using buzzwords, bad grammar, and punditspeak to keep saying the same thing. Even when the conversation moved to a more general question about Black Conservatives, you refused to join in that fray (which, mind, has differing opinions in it and no one asking for some "common ground") and instead tried to bring folks closer to you or make nice or something so that you could feel comfortable.

You're the one not playing correctly, cat.