And that's why I rarely comment elsewhere
This grew out of a reply to something Neo said on her LiveJournal, but I realized it was getting way far afield, and probably wasn't gonna go over too well.
So, it goes here, where everything is far afield, and I don't have to give a flying fuck how it goes over.
Short version, she mentioned a review of The L Word over at AfterEllen.com, which said in part:
The L Word has also given voice to something that the straight world may not be aware of. My friend Cynthia explained, “What really turned me on about this show is [that]…of the friendship group and the scenes where it’s the core characters, it’s all gay. I’ve had straight people in the office…[who] didn’t believe that I could have an entirely dyke universe.”
Which led to a discussion of the desirability of such a thing. More or less. Like I said, I'm going afie-- fuckit, the point is, I read this as having a space where the consensus reality is different from your mainstream, het, white, middle-class boring bullshit that takes up most of the space in the media (and politics, and pretty much everything else) in this country.
And, you know, I think that's a good thing. Not as a constant, obviously -- I don't think there's anything more damaging to a healthy psyche than spending all your time with like-minded people -- but sometimes it's nice to not have to justify things, or explain them, to folks who might mean well, but at a certain level Just Don't Get It.
An example: back when that wretched fucking Joe Boxer discussion was going on, a white acquaintance decided to speculate as to what was wrong with George and Jason and, by extension, me, for having a few issues with the thing.
What I should have said was, "Cracka, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, shut the fuck up."
Instead, I smiled and nodded.
Zero Four, I've decided, is the year of no longer smiling and nodding.
Another example: Based on my dealings with the guy, I think Grey Miller of Madison, Wisconsin, is a racist, arrogant prick. Any people of color who know him and disagree with this opinion, feel free to try to convince me that I'm wrong.
White folks can sit this one out, as they have nothing worthwhile to contribute to the discussion.
Let me rephrase that: when it comes to discussing whether a particular person or statement or, say, mock propaganda poster is racist, although you may be well-meaning, know lots of black people, blah de fucking blah, since you don't have to experience this every day the good lord sends, cracka, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, shut the fuck up.
Clear enough?
Another example: it's never even crossed my mind when someone talks about expereincing sexism or homophobia to explain to that person, slowly, and using very small words, and making sure to use their name in every other sentence, that what happened wasn't really sexism/homophobia/discrimination. Not having dealt with these my own self, I don't think I can examine the situation objectively and offer a unique perspective that those who do are incapable of seeing. I figure I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, and shut the fuck up.
There's no shame in not knowing what the fuck you're talking about. Just in not realizing that you don't, and not shutting the fuck up.
Am I. . . am I getting through to you at all here?
Yes, I know people who expereince these things. Yes, I've sometimes been with them when one or another form of discrimination takes place. Yes, I get pissed about that shit. But, not expereincing it myself, I realize that at a certain level I Just Don't Get It, and never will. I can try to draw comparisons to my own expereinces, but those ain't gonna be exact.
And again I sez, fuckit. I don't think I can explain this any better, but if you're still confused, try asking for clarification. Politely. If you're just pissed off about what you just read and need to vent, this ain't the place, and I ain't the one. So if you ever want to post here again, take a deep breath, count back from ten, and shut the fuck up.
Comments
What I get from your tone and theme is that you would so totally enjoy reading Joanna Russ. The Female Man, On Strike Against God, What Are We Fighting For?, all that. Best-ever responses to Those Who Just Don't . . .
Posted by: Mr Ripley | January 28, 2004 8:12 PM
Oh, see, NOW I'm curious about what else you were going to add in that comment you didn't write.
Email me?
Posted by: neogrammarian | January 28, 2004 10:50 PM
One of the things that annoys me about people who have the monopoly on understanding sexism/racism/homophobia/whatever is that even the experiences of people in the discriminated-against class have widely varying experiences.
I know as a woman, I have very different experiences of sexism against me than other women of different SES and ethnic backgrounds, for instance, and different experiences from lesbians (closeted or not) and different experiences from women who are a lot like me but in different career fields. If you pick five women I know, most of whom are from relatively heterogeneous race/SES backgrounds (I'm thinking of a specific group of girlfriends here, most of whom were college friends) and ask them whether a certain ad/movie/TV show/song is sexist and offensive, you'll get at least three different opinions and possibly five. And all these opinions are informed by our experiences of sexism in our lives.
I know how mad it makes me when a man comes in and tells me that something I found to be sexist and particularly offensive isn't, and I'm dumb for feeling that way about it. I didn't *feel* the offense in the Joe Boxer ad, but it didn't occur to me to say "that's not offensive" *because it's patently untrue*--a lot of people were offended. (I've always thought that ad was in large part aimed at white people anyway.) And if people in the discriminated-against group can't agree on what's offensive, it's awfully hard to take an outsider seriously in claims that something is clearly NOT offensive.
Part of the damage of societal discrimination is that it makes people in discriminated groups doubt their own sense of what's offensive in a way that undermines their ability to act to end the offense. People who come out with the "that's clearly not offensive" in short and mocking words, whether they are otherwise sexist/racist/etc. or not, serve to reinforce the worst parts of institutional discrimination.
Not to mention that it's rude as all get-out and Miss Manners would disapprove. Miss Manners is not perfect, but if people listened to her common-sense advice on how to deal with people who are "different" (just like everybody else), society would get along a lot better.
Posted by: Ginger | January 29, 2004 7:55 AM
Hmmm. Human experience - in my gay white jewish punk rock/klub kid drug abuser anti-clone experience - has been a little more complicated than simply either Getting or Not Getting it. So I gave up trying to pigeon-hole (no pun intended) myself years ago: it made me feel old.
Posted by: sean | January 29, 2004 9:41 AM
"Part of the damage of societal discrimination is that it makes people in discriminated groups doubt their own sense of what's offensive in a way that undermines their ability to act to end the offense."
Gads, Ginger, you wield an intellect like a rapier. I couldn't agree more. The way that oppressive systems of thought keep one guessing about whther or not one is crazy is their most nasty, potent power.
When you're trying to see another person's world, the rules are simple. Listen much. Speak little. Best if the speaking is limited to a genuine request for more info or clarification, and then only if the speaker seems at all inclined to enlighten your ass. I wonder what about this is so very hard for some folks.
Posted by: garrity | January 29, 2004 9:51 AM
Ginger, that was awesome. And I couldn't agree more.
Posted by: London | January 29, 2004 9:11 PM
Mr Ripley, saw a copy of The Female Man at (where else?) Brown Elephant a few weeks back, figured I'd pick it up next time I was in the place, and naturally it was gone when I returned. Guess I can try Stars Our Destination next time I'm in Evanston.
Think Elise suggested some Joanna Russ to me once, but I was too distracted by her Elise-y charms to pay much attention. . .
Neo, email sent. Nope, that was pretty much it. Pathetic, ain't it?
Ginger, you just keep getting cooler.
Sean, you maybe want to expand on that. And you're kind'a arguing against a position I didn't take; I didn't reduce things to "simply either Getting or Not Getting it." Perhaps you missed it when I was boring the hell out of everyone rejecting dualism as a valid way of looking at the world.
Posted by: Aaron | January 31, 2004 10:13 AM